Chapter 2 Public hearings

2.1This chapter lists the key topics discussed for each department and agency examined during the committee's hearings for Budget Estimates 2022–23. Page numbers of the Proof Hansard transcript for that day's hearing are indicated in brackets as a reference.

Prime Minister and Cabinet portfolio—Friday 28 October 2022

Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet

2.2Ms Alison Frame, Deputy Secretary, Social Policy, Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (PM&C), made a brief opening statement regarding changes to the department's executive since Budget Estimates 2022–23 in April 2022.

2.3Topics discussed for PM&C included:

development of policy options to alleviate energy price rises in Australia(pp. 4–6, 9–10);

potential disclosure of confidential information from Cabinet and the National Security Committee in the book Plagued by Simon Benson and Geoff Chambers (pp. 7–8), referral of the potential disclosure to the Attorney-Generals Department, and how PM&C became aware of the book’s contents (p. 12);

interactions between the Federal and State governments on ensuring the affordability, and adequate supply, of gas (p. 11);

workplace planning in relation to energy transition (pp. 12–13);

departmental use of consultants and where budget savings will be achieved over four years by reducing spending on external labour (pp. 13–14);

jobs at risk due to high gas prices and supply shortages (p. 15);

the review of the Australian Domestic Gas Security Mechanism (ADGSM) (p. 16);

conduct of the Cabinet Office Policy Committee (COPC) under the previous government including members and their permanency, minutes of the COPC, and attendance and participation of non-members regarding the practices and processes as set out in the Cabinet Handbook: 14th Edition (pp. 18–21)

Cabinet committees for the current government including membership, co-option or attendance of non-members of the executive at Cabinet committees or Cabinet, how often the committees meet, the Cabinet secretary and minute taker, and staff approved to attend Cabinet subcommittee meetings (pp. 21–25, 30–31);

commitments deriving from the Jobs and Skills Summit including the increase in apprentice trainees, paid cadetships, and the participation of women under the Australian Skills Guarantee (p. 25);

consultation with the Department of Treasury and the Department of Social Services on wellbeing measures (pp. 26–27);

the purpose and structure of the Priority Delivery Unit (pp. 28–29);

the Cabinet Handbook 15th edition (pp. 29–30, 52);

the Net Zero Economy Taskforce and the impact of the net zero transformation of the Australian economy (pp. 32–33);

renewable energy (pp. 33–34);

what role PM&C took in the development of the Code of Conduct for Ministers (pp. 34–38);

default market offers (p. 39);

the Statement of Ministerial Standards regarding the former Treasurer the Hon Josh Frydenburg (pp. 40–41);

use of non-disclosure agreements (p. 41);

the ban on political fundraisers at Australian Parliament House (pp. 41–42);

PM&C’s role in the implementation of the Members of Parliament (Staff) Act 1984 (MoPs Act)review recommendations (p. 42);

investment holdings of thethe Attorney-General, the Hon Mark Dreyfus MP (pp. 45–46);

comments made by the Israel Prime Minister Yair Lapid, and subsequent engagement with the Israeli government (pp. 47–50);

the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) review taskforce (pp. 50–52);

Cabinet submission procedures (pp. 52–53);

release of audit working papers of the Australian National Audit Office (ANAO) (pp. 55–57); and

Freedom of Information reference PM22010 from the Prime Minister’s Office (pp. 57–58).

Office of the Official Secretary to the Governor-General

2.4Mr Paul Singer MVO, Official Secretary of the Office of the Official Secretary to the Governor-General, made an opening statement acknowledging the passing of Her Majesty the Queen in September, the continued work of the agency to support the Governor-General, and the celebration of the Order of Australia awards.

2.5Topics discussed for the Office of the Official Secretary to the Governor-General included:

circumstances preceding the establishment of the Australian Future Leaders Program, and costs associated with a round table discussion forum held on the program (pp. 59–63);

the relationship between the Governor-General and Mr Chris Hartley (pp. 59–60, 64–65);

the administration of the Order of Australia honours and awards (p. 66);

increased budget expenditure for ICT upgrades (p. 69);

refurbishment of Admiralty House (p. 70); and

entries into the Governor-General's Program (pp. 71–72).

Australian National Audit Office

2.6Topics discussed for the ANAO included:

funding awarded under the Building Better Regions Fund (pp. 73–74);

timeline of audits (pp. 75–76);

the audit of wasteful spending (p. 77); and

the disclosure of working papers from the Purchase of the ‘Leppington Triangle’ Land for the Future Development of Western Sydney Airport audit (pp. 78–79).

PM&C portfolio continued—Monday, 7 November 2022

Australian Public Service Commission

2.7Topics discussed for the Australian Public Service Commission (APSC) included:

the appointment of Dr Gordon de Brouwer as the Secretary of Public Sector Reform (pp. 2–3);

use of consultants and the establishment of an in-house consultancy model (pp. 4–5);

policies and strategies to promote a culturally and linguistically diverse APS workforce (p. 5);

the Diversity and Inclusion Report 2022 (p. 6);

the APS Code of Conduct—whether the code applies when transferring between employment contract and procedures for when someone is subject to disciplinary action (p. 6);

timeline for implementation of the recommendations from the Independent Review of the Australian Public Service (pp. 7–8, 10–11, 16);

the interim wages policy (pp. 8–10);

role and responsibilities of the Secretary of Public Sector Reform and APSC Commissioner (p. 12);

capacity and staffing of the Public Sector Reform Unit (pp. 12–13);

gender equality reporting obligations of Commonwealth departments and agencies (pp. 14–15);

measures to identify and address the gender pay gap in Commonwealth departments and agencies (p. 15);

capacity building to implement the gender responsive budgeting and policy analysis (p. 15); and

priorities of the Partnership Priority subcommittee; (pp. 17–18).

Office for Women (PM&C)

2.8Topics discussed for the Office for Women, an office of PM&C, included:

gender-responsive budgeting, gender impact assessments to budget measures, and additional resourcing (pp. 19–20);

selection process for members of the Women's Economic Equality Taskforce (pp. 21–23);

gender representation on government boards (pp. 23–24);

adequacy of the women's safety budget allocation (pp. 24–25);

role and establishment of the Office of Parliamentarian Staffing and Culture (pp. 25–26);

the MoPS Act review (pp. 25–26);

reviewal of the decision to reduce the allocation of personal staff to independent members of parliament and smaller political parties (p. 26);

consultation with women's organisations in developing the May 2023 Budget (p. 27);

consultation regarding the government's paid parental scheme and timing of its implementation (p. 27);

the Parliamentary Leadership Taskforce’s role in delivering the recommendations of Set the Standard: Report on the Independent Review into Commonwealth Parliamentary Workplaces 2021 (Set the Standard report) (p. 28);

childcare subsidy changes (p. 29); and

targets to increase female participation in trades and apprenticeships (p. 29).

Workplace Gender Equality Agency

2.9Topics discussed for the Workplace Gender Equality Agency (WGEA) included:

updates on implementation of the recommendations of the Respect@Work: Sexual Harassment National Inquiry Report 2020 undertaken by Ms Kate Jenkins, Sex Discrimination Commissioner (p. 31);

qualitative data about the effectiveness of policies to address the gender pay (pp. 31–32); and

the relationship between the Office for Women, WGEA and the Women's Economic Equality Taskforce (p. 32).

Parliamentary departments—Monday 7 November 2022

Department of the Senate

2.10The Senate President, Senator the Hon Sue Lines, gave an opening statement detailing Senate activities regarding the demise of the Crown, the recent building condition statement, and measures that have been implemented from the Set the Standard report.

2.11Topics discussed for the Department of the Senate included:

the $2.2 million budget supplementation allocated to the Senate over the preceding years (pp. 34–35, 40);

workload and capacity of Senate committees (p. 35);

interpreting and defining the rules of the Senate (p. 36, 39);

definition of direct relevance in relation to Senate Chamber proceedings during Question Time (pp. 36, 41–42);

rulings and points of order made by the Senate President (pp. 37, 41–46);

impact of parliamentary privilege on the work of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide, and the application of the Parliamentary Privileges Act 1987 (pp. 37–38);

staffing levels (pp. 39–40);

requests for Senate legislative drafting services (p. 40); and

details of each event that was held associated with the demise of the Crown (pp. 46–47).

Parliamentary Budget Office

2.12Topics discussed for the Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) included:

additional funding sought by the PBO in the October 2022 budget (p. 47);

characteristics of the 47th Parliament that have changed the demand for services from the PBO (p. 48);

ICT competency, the protection of data, and the need to improve ICT infrastructure (p. 49);

resourcing and staffing levels (p. 50);

PBO activity during the 2022 election (pp. 50–51);

specifics of the PBO’s Election Commitments Report (pp. 51–54); and

the process for confirming with the major parties whether their policies are for a specified period or are ongoing (p. 54).

Department of Parliamentary Services

2.13Topics discussed for the Department of Parliamentary Services (DPS) included:

advice provided to parliamentarians about the use of certain applications on DPS issued devices (pp. 55–57);

the scope of DPS to provide a risk context on the personal information stored on DPS issues devices (p. 57);

disposal procedures for DPS issued devices (pp. 57–58);

process for staff visitors and building users to input into the upcoming review of DPS's Access and Inclusion Plan (pp. 58–59);

necessity of new DPS Social Media Policy and consultation with DPS employees on the policy (pp. 59–60);

DPS policies or processes that will be put in place for the ban on political fundraising activities within Australian Parliament House (APH) (pp. 61, 69–71);

budget considerations including the adequacy of staffing levels and resourcing demands (pp. 61–62);

Parliamentary Library staffing and recruitment in response to increased demand for assistance from the crossbench (p. 63, 65);

evaluation processes undertaken to assess whether MPs and Senators are satisfied with the service that they receive from DPS (p. 63);

the term of employment of the Parliamentary Librarian, Dr Dianne Heriot (pp. 63–64);

employee census data (pp. 64–65);

construction of an additional classified meeting space within APH (p. 66);

news agencies with access to the APH Press Gallery (pp. 66–67);

storage and procurement of new works for the Parliamentary art collection, (pp. 67–68);

the Prime Minister's Office’s telephone system (pp. 68–69, 72–76);

net zero emissions plan (pp. 72–73, 77–78); and

APH ICT services cybersecurity capacity (p. 78).

Finance portfolio—Monday 7 November 2022

Department of Finance (Outcomes 1 & 2)

2.14Topics discussed for the Department of Finance (Outcomes 1 & 2) included:

Budget Process Operational Rules including how new policy proposals are decided, the timing of decisions, offset spending proposals, and reviews by the Expenditure Review Committee (ERC) (pp. 82–86);

green brief procedures (p. 87);

ERC membership (pp. 87–89);

the hunting licence process[1] (pp. 89–90);

formal processes and thresholds for the movement of funds (pp. 91–93);

expenditure on current government advertising campaigns, and reviews of campaigns by the Independent Communications Committee (pp. 93–94);

offset spending proposals for the Climate portfolio (pp. 94–95)

the department's approach to non-disclosure agreements (pp. 95–96);

act-of-grace payments (p. 96);

budget reductions in use of consultants and contractors, advertising, travel, and legal expenses (pp. 97–98);

statements of risk, particularly statements on the NDIS, the Marinus Link, the Brisbane 2032 Olympic games, and the Inland Rail (pp. 98–103);

public measures in the Contingency Reserve (pp. 103–106); and

the audit of wasteful spending taskforce including membership, mechanism of engagement with other departments, proposals for potential savings and reprioritisation of existing funding (pp. 106–107).

Future Fund Management Agency

2.15Topics discussed for the Future Fund Management Agency (Future Fund) included:

proxy voting in relation to Rio Tinto (p. 124);

the Future Fund’s assessment of climate risks in current portfolio holdings (pp. 125–126);

proactive disclosure requirements on portfolio holdings (p. 126);

appropriateness of Mr Peter Costello chairing the Future Fund (p. 127); and

administration of the $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund (p. 127).

ASC Pty Ltd

2.16ASC Pty Ltd discussed the role, capacity, and funding of the Submarine Capability Development Group (p. 129).

Australian Naval Infrastructure Pty Ltd

2.17Topics discussed for Australian Naval Infrastructure Pty Ltd (ANI) included:

investment in the Osborne North Development Project for the new yard for the Attack-class submarines (p. 128); and

impacts to the ANI budget resulting from the cancellation of the Attack-class submarine contract (p. 129).

Department of Finance (Outcome 3)

2.18Topics discussed for the Department of Finance (Outcome 3) included:

matters relating to the Parliamentary Expenses Management System (PEMS), including its rollout timeline and issues, reporting timeframes, usage levels, average number of claims made, on-call assistance hours, data accuracy, and user issues (pp. 5–16);

the breakdown of ministerial and parliamentary staffing allocations (pp. 16–17);

the Caucus Support Unit and Office for Staff Support (p. 18);

current enterprise agreements under the MoPs Act (pp. 18–19);

monies paid to terminated or redundant ministerial and parliamentary staff after the 2022 Federal Election (pp. 19–21);

CCTV and remote electronic locking mechanisms in Commonwealth funded electoral offices (pp. 21–22); and

new staff induction training programs for ministerial and parliamentary staff (pp. 22–24).

Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority

2.19Topics discussed for the Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority (IPEA) included:

progress on the independent review of the Parliamentary Business Resources Act 2017 (p. 24);

claims made during the election period in 2022, and what could be improved upon (p. 25);

audit and assurance operations (p. 26);

education budget activities (pp. 26–27);

assurance activities undertaken to ensure the correct use of Commonwealth funds (p. 27);

expenditure reporting schedules for parliamentarians (pp. 27–28);

contribution of IPEA to PEMS, including budget allocation, views on PEMS functionality, rollout delays, advice to parliamentarians, monitoring expenditure, record keeping, and impact on other IPEA functions (pp. 28–31); and

capacity for relief budget for staff and travel (pp. 31–32).

Australian Electoral Commission

2.20Topics discussed for the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) included:

the preparation and timeline of activities required before an election is called, including the procurement of polling locations, services and staff, and supply chain considerations (p. 33);

referendum readiness framework document (p. 33);

specifics of the 2022 Election Report (pp. 33-34);

referendum readiness and budget considerations for the potential referendum on the Voice to Parliament (pp. 34–35);

tax deductibility procedures for donations made to political entities (p. 35);

obligations of significant third parties as registered under the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918 (Electoral Act) (p. 36);

section 326 of the Electoral Act on electoral bribery (p. 37);

Prime Minister the Hon Anthony Albanese MP’s announcement that the government was considering allowing New Zealand citizens to vote in Australian elections (pp. 37–38);

Indigenous voter enrolments and participation (pp. 38–40);

contacting non-voters (p. 41);

reconciliation of votes and quality assurance process (p. 42);

foreign interference in Australian elections and the role of the Electoral Integrity Assurance Taskforce (p. 43);

collaboration with state electoral commissions (pp. 44–45);

potential breaches of the Electoral Act during the 2022 election campaign (pp. 45–46);

electoral complaints processes (p. 46); and

electoral integrity and the role of social media platforms (p. 47).

Cross-portfolio on Indigenous Matters—Friday 11 November 2022

Indigenous Land and Sea Corporation

2.21Topics discussed for the Indigenous Land and Sea Corporation (ILSC) included:

closure of Redfern's National Centre of Indigenous Excellence (pp. 4–5);

land acquisition under the Returning and Managing Country Program (pp. 5–6);

ILSC partnering with Indigenous businesses in caring for country, land and water management practices (p. 6); and

Indigenous employment and the Real Jobs Program (p. 7).

Aboriginal Hostels Limited

2.22Topics discussed for the Aboriginal Hostels Limited (AHL) included:

annual appropriations budget decrease (p. 7);

enrolment difficulty and the closure of the Kununurra hostel (p. 8);

statistics and breakdown of AHL and its activities, including demographics of staff, number of properties bought and sold in the last two financial years, revenue from sales, and occupancy levels (p. 8);

the condition of Tony Mundine Hostel in Leichhardt, Sydney (p. 9);

updates on Alice Springs hostels (p. 10); and

engagement with the Northern Territory state government (p. 11).

Central Land Council

2.23Topics discussed for the Central Land Council (CLC) included:

section 19 lease applications including expressions of interest and processing, economic development purposes, application processing times, minutes of meetings with traditional owners, and meeting safety considerations (pp. 11–13);

the CLC’s council and processes for community engagement (p. 14);

the Undoolya Station traditional lands and pastoral leases (p. 14); and

the CLC’s view on the Voice to Parliament (pp. 15–16).

Northern Land Council

2.24Topics discussed for the Northern Land Council (NLC) included:

process for ensuring the voices of traditional owners within the NLC’s jurisdiction are heard (p. 17);

section 19 lease applications, including expressions of interest and processing, economic development purposes, application processing times, minutes of meetings with traditional owners, and meeting safety considerations (pp. 17–20);

recruitment processes for the NLC’s Principal Legal Officer (p. 18);

restructure of the Northern Land Council's management (pp. 18–19);

grant agreements with the Commonwealth regarding gas exploration and extraction (p. 19);

processes for dispute resolution regarding land ownership under the Aboriginal Land Rights Act 1983, including the involvement of the NLC in disputes and legal resources available to traditional owners (p. 21);

the anthropological process for determining what constitutes an interested and/or affected person regarding land rights (p. 22); and

the NLC’s view on the Voice to Parliament (pp. 23–24).

Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations

2.25The Registrar of the Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations (ORIC), Ms Tricia Shroud, gave an opening statement outlining the ORIC’s dual role of monitoring and enforcement, and support for and capacity building of Indigenous corporations.

2.26Topics discussed for the ORIC included:

statistics on corporations fulfilling their statutory obligations under the Corporations (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander) Act 2006 (p. 25);

compliance reporting (p. 26);

the conduct of directors on corporation boards (p. 26);

auditing of annual financial reporting requirements (pp. 26–27);

ORIC’s investigative responsibilities, including investigations undertaken that have resulted in a conviction, ORIC’s obligation to whistle-blowers, and the average timeline of an investigation (p. 27);

ORIC’s knowledge of Facebook posts from Quandamooka Yoolooburrabee Aboriginal Corporation and Dr Andrew Laming (pp. 27–28);

increased transparency measures from amendments to the Aboriginal Land Rights Act 1976 (p. 28); and

monitoring matters of fraud or non-compliance (pp. 28–31);

Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies

2.27Topics discussed for the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies (AIATSIS) included:

Ngurra, the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Cultural Precinct (pp. 31–32);

 percentage of staff at AIATSIS that are First Nations’ people, in the whole organisation and at executive level (p. 32); and

repatriation activities (p. 33).

Indigenous Business Australia

2.28Topics discussed for Indigenous Business Australia (IBA) included:

current strategic focus for IBA (p. 34);

statistics on procurements targets for First Nations’ businesses (p. 34);

IBA’s involvement in housing security (p. 34);

actions taken to address ‘black cladding’ (pp. 34–35); and

the criteria for receiving funding specific for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders (p. 35).

National Indigenous Australians Agency

2.29Topics discussed for the National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) included:

data on state and territory government progress in improving outcomes of Closing the Gap targets, including incarceration of adults and youth, health, child protection, education and housing (pp. 35, 51–52);

Commonwealth investments for Closing the Gap targets (p. 36);

justice reinvestment initiatives (p. 36);

data and measuring outcomes for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander child protection services (p. 37);

NIAA support for the Wadeye community and other Northern Territory communities (p. 38);

budget allocation for the Remote School Attendance Strategy (p. 38);

Makarrata Commission funding and consultation process with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people (pp. 39–40);

consultation for the Uluru Statement from the Heart regarding self-determination and free, prior and informed consent (pp. 40–41);

representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders in the Australian Parliament (p. 42);

statistics on Indigenous Advancement Strategy funding recipients (pp. 42–43);

food security in the Northern Territory, including price gouging, inflationary pressures, and monitoring by the remote food security working group, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, and the Australian National Audit Office (pp. 43–44, 48–50);

investigations of noncompliance into organisations under funding contracts (pp. 44–45);

impact of the removal of alcohol restrictions in the Northern Territory and the Commonwealth's investment into drug and alcohol support(p. 45);

number of applications made, and payments distributed, under the Territories Stolen Generations Redress Scheme (p. 46);

deliverables of the National Partnership for Remote Housing NT (p. 47);

expenditure and work being undertaken on the Voice to Parliament (pp. 50–51); and

the impact on Northern Territory communities of the cessation of the Stronger Futures in the Northern Territory Act 2012 (Cth) (Stronger Futures Act)(pp. 52–53).

Cross-portfolio on Indigenous Matters – Thursday 24 November 2022

National Indigenous Australians Agency

2.30Topics discussed for the NIAA included:

Matters relating to the Voice to Parliament, including:

the Referendum Working Group: how members of the Working Group were chosen; whether people refused to join; what administrative support was provided to the Working Group; and the remuneration of members

Self-determination

Campaign funding

Timeline for the referendum (pp. 4–6, 8–11);

demographics of the NIAA’s executive staff (pp. 6–7);

changes to the Community Development Program under the current government (p. 7);

contribution of the Indigenous Ranger Program to climate change adaption and mitigation projects (p. 8);

defining Indigeneity (pp. 13–14)

due diligence processes for the allocation of funds to an organisation (p. 14);

consultation sessions with the Wreck Bay community on the Aboriginal Land Grant (Jervis Bay Territory) Amendment (Strengthening Land and Governance Provisions) Bill 2022 (pp. 15–16);

consultation with traditional owners on the government’s response to the report of the Joint Standing Committee on Northern Australia on the destruction of the Juukan Gorge titled A Way Forward (pp. 16–17);

statistics on hospital admissions, arrests, and volume of alcohol being purchased in the Northern Territory since the cessation of the Stronger Futures Act(pp. 17–19);

funding for the National Forum for Family Violence Prevention Legal Services (pp. 19–20); and

establishment of the Youpla Group Funeral Benefits Program (p. 21).

Cross-portfolio on Indigenous Matters—Monday 12 December 2022

Office of Township Leasing

2.31The Executive Director of the Office of Township Leasing (OTL), Ms Pennie Talbot, gave an opening statement which outlined the township lease model and work undertaken by OTL.

2.32Topics discussed for OTL included:

negotiating leases and economic development opportunities with traditional owners (p. 5);

culturally legitimate decision-making (p. 5);

competence of the OTL to manage commercial subleases in remote Indigenous communities (p. 6);

difference between the economic development function of the OTL and the NIAA (p. 7);

safe housing leases (p. 8);

the Groote Eylandt township lease transfer (p. 9); and

the ongoing role of the OTL (p. 10).

National Indigenous Australians Agency, the Attorney-General’s Department, the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, and the Department of Health and Aged Care

2.33Officials from the National Indigenous Australians Agency, the Attorney-General’s Department, the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, and the Department of Health and Aged Care appeared before the committee simultaneously.

2.34Topics discussed included:

availability of translation services in remote communities (p. 12);

advice provided to the department from key stakeholders about the impact of alcohol accessibility since the cessation of the Stronger Futures Act (pp. 12–13);

drug support and residential rehabilitation activities in the Northern Territory (pp. 13–14);

threshold for the Northern Territory to implement alcohol prohibition (p. 15);

review of the Queensland South Native Title Services and other native title holder representative bodies (p. 16);

use of taxpayer funds in native title legal proceedings (p. 17);

First Nations’ health outcomes (pp. 17–18);

funding for, and outcomes of, native title claims (p. 19);

alternative pathways for traditional owners pursuing or disputing native title claims (p. 19);

funding for Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Services (p. 20);

steps taken by the Department of Health to address the limitations of throughcare programs in correctional facilities (pp. 21–22);

the Voice to Parliament, and Constitutional recognition (p. 22);

changes to the Broome office of the Special Envoy for Reconciliation and Implementation of the Uluru Statement from the Heart (p. 23);

measuring data outcomes in the Closing the Gap report (p. 23);

criteria for funding Northern Territory sports organisations (p. 24); and

consultation process has been for the Voice to Parliament (pp. 25–26).

Footnotes

[1]A hunting licence is a budget term for when an Expenditure Review Committee delegates a decision to a minister.